The Eckley Oral History Project

Tape 16-1, page 21

JS: Well, not in Eckley here, no place. There was a little bit in Number Two one time, on the west [?????] side, they had it break in, there were some old mine holes, you know, caves, which rivered the water. And there were quite a bit of water in them. And they broke in--oh boy you oughta see how water is strong. You wouldn't think it. The cars that were in there, you know, and when it hit, the water hit them, why. pushin' them out and pushin' timber and everything out, until the cars started to get off the road, you know, jump the track, then it twisted them up and piled them up in there and you'd think somebody jammed them in there. That's how strong water is. I never thought it was that strong, but I seen that. That was there, after we were working in there, we were lookin' at it. how it had them cars and everything jammed up just, you'd think somebody pressed them in there, everthing. And what, timbers and everything pushed out you know, with it. til it got struck, it couldn't push no more.

AV: My goodness! That's strong.

JS: [?????????] wouldn't have [blank space] it would have pushed them out to who knows where it would have pushed them. But when they [???????????????????????????].

Mrs. S: Angie, did you enjoy the movie last night?

AV: No, I didn't go, we couldn't find it!

Mrs. S: Oh, you didn't go?

JS: Yes, that's mining. for you.

AV: And I heard that sometimes these coal beds used to catch on fire?

JS: Oh, yes. You know, I don't know how the hell they get the coal on fire. Now before, when the mines were goin' here, you didn't hear of a mine fire. It was all right. And now since they're after the government to appropriate so much money for them to outen them fires, there's fires all over the gosh darn mines. How the hell are they gettin' on fire now? I say it's somebody puttin' 'em on fire. That's what they're doin'.

Tape 16-1, page 22

AV: Couldn't happen accidentally?

JS: They get millions of dollars off the government to flush them, you know. and stuff, and that's what they're doin'. And then the government. I don't know, the sons of a gun, if you look into things, why you could cut half the expense it, what's goin' for nothin'. They're the cheatin' the hell out of them and they listen to them and and appropriate so much money for that. And they have a good time then. And sometimes they outen the fires and sometimes they don't.

AV: I know near Ashland where we went to visit, they say that there's this mine that's been on fire for years and years.

JS: Yes. Well, it burns slow because coal burns slow, you know. And if it's in big pillars, you know, I guess what happens, she goin' slowly, but it takes, maybe it takes a year to go from this shanty to that-there rooms over there, and so on you know. Well, it takes years and years before it'll burn out. It all depends on what kind of a place it is. If it's on the pitch, and there's homes built over the damn land, that's a danger, because if that burns all out, then she'll fall down and everything'll go down. But it it's on a flat, when-t- well then you ain't afraid so much because she'd settle down more, by the time it gets to the bottom again, you know, she'd set on that and just make a dip or somethin'. won't upset the homes or anything. But these pitch places, when they go down they go down. What the hell, you won't get the house no more or nothin'. And if you're in it, you're down there, too.

AV: Goodness!

JS: Yeah, it's pretty dangerous. where there's pitch.

AV: I heard that there was some setting in Mckley, too.

JS: Oh, yeah, there used to be lots of settling. That there, back of Helen's, you know, where you see that , there were all homes through there, and that settled down.

AV: That Back Street?

Tape 16-1, page 24

own, this here. If anything, if your house settled down or anything, your company didn't stand for it. You know, just like we're payin' rent now, well, they didn't stand for it. You just took a risk of your own. Well, that's the same thing, the guy that, the foreman of the homes here, he came and gave you a orders, did you want to live in it, well, that's okay, but if you don't want to live in it.....

JS: I was working on that there then. I was driving mules then. To the miners that were workin' there. But it was flat every place there.

Mts. S: And there was nobody drove in this part of the street, this corner here, it was roped off. And there was that highway wasn't goin' to Wetherly like the highways go now, this way. It come just so far and this was like an alley, in between. Where, where this house (sic) is now goin' to , to wetherly, that road, well that wasn't a state highway. They just built that state highway I guess about forty years ago, forty three years.

AV: When did you drive mules?

JS: Well. I was patchin'. Well, I didn't patch long, maybe about a year or so. Then they give me two mules right off the bat to drive.

AV: What year was that?

JS: Oh, about nineteen-seven or eight when I started off.

AV: Patching?

JS: Hmm. Then I'm driving, then I got the big, big team.

AV: What big team?

JS: The four mules.

AV: Oh, yeah?

JS: Then I used to drive that one. That was a tough job, there. I used to have the big runs, you know, [splitting] cars. You'd give the cars to the miners, then you'd gather them all up and run them down the run.

AV: All at once?

JS: Yeah! Sometimes you'd have thirty-five and more cars at once, and

Tape 16-1, page 28

year, besides how much he'd be gettin' expense. Now they get an expense. Be-God Almighty, why fifty people could live an awful good life on the expense money they turn in. Now what are they gonna do with that money? Now, Boyle has his hands full because they got into that shootin', that there Yablonski and his wife and a daughter. I know his life ain't worth nothin' to him today, because he has a big headache, you know. And the fellow warned him-I just forgot his name--he told him, and this is startin' to go on when he was runnin' for the office back again, he said if I was you, he said, you know what I would do? He said, I would put my hands down and wash them and tell them you's can have the office. You got enough to live. And he said, if you don't. he says, you'll be the most sorry man ever was in you life. He says, don't run! And he wouldn't listen. He had to go to work and shoot that guy. Because he was gonna tell somethin' on him, you know, to the goverment. There was supposed to be a hearing about that guy. And see, they are all in this gosh-dang racket, they were robbin' the men. Now, the bank in Washington, I don't know how many millions is in that bank, and they had it all set for them and all their officers in the Mine Workers, you know, and their families, pensions, this monies. And they weren't payin' the interest or nothin' on this money. That was all, just like put on the side away for them. They caught up with them and they found out what they were doin' there. So now, they are gonna have an election, a new officer for the mine workers. So I don't know how the hell it's gonna come out.

AV: When did you first join the union? When did you join the union the first time?

JS: I was workin' when there were might as well say no union.

AV: Really? What was it like?

JS: Boss of the company had it on you because they did what they want with you. They drew you around and every damn thing. Well then after, they used to start to pay a quarter a month. But that was only a few, not too many. You

Tape 16-1, page 30

welfare, that one dollar, that was a good idea. You know, the governor stuck his nose in it. He says, now, he says, that's goin' into effect. He says how about it, he says, if they go to work, he says, the government will put in so much money and let the coal caompanies put in so much money, and elect three government men, three operators, and three miners, and let them control that, run it, you know, and we'll look into it that they do the right thing. NO. Our union officials said there ain't no goddam this and that and that gonna handle union money That belongs to the union. Well sure, that belong to them and not to the men that were supposed to get it. You know if they run that right, miners could be pensioned as nice as any other concern in the country. But, no. Now they are, soft coal, they are payin' them a hundred and fifty dollars a month. Over here they are payin' thirty dollars. Not thirty because you are payin' a dollar and quarter dues yet out of it.

AV: Were the unions always that rotten? Even in the beginning?

JS: Yeah. Oh. A long time ago is a good man. This here Lewis wasn't too good. He started the racket already. But John Mitchell was a good man. He was a good man. He said, You know, he said, if United Mine workers organized together and he says everybody pays the union, he says, if they pay thirty-five cents a month, he said we'll have the strongest union and the best union that htere is in the country. And him, and there was a lady. Mother Jones they used to call her....

AV: Oh, yeah?

JS: Yes, she used to go around with them. And they used to have speeches to get everybody, you know, in the union, that they would stick, and wouldn't listen to politics and stuff. But he says, you keep your union and keep it out of politics, he said. And he says you will have something. Why they used to be up here, you know where this Washko's live on that corner house, well that was a field there, all grass, they aren't no trees or anything, that was all grass. They used to come there and they used to have speeches. They'd get

A. Varesano interviewing Joe Sulkusky and Mrs. Sulkusky

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Tape 30-2

JS: Down here to Number Seven--it ain't too far back here--they had a hole, like a tunnel, goin' in there. That's where all these here Molly Maguires were livin', most of them, down here. There were lots of them on this street. They used to call this The Irish Street.

AV: Main Street, here, right?

JS: The Main Street. You couldn't get a house here on this street, any other nationality. All were Irish, mostly. Well, then there was a few Dutch down below there, Blasses, or something. But the Mollies there, up in these houses along here, and that other street down there, on the Back Street, that's toward Almont, well, that street there, there were all kinds of people livin' there. Mixed up, you know, different nationalities. But here, you couldn't get on this street for a house. They had it. So them Mollies down there, where the first spring started, they had no hydrants in the, er ah, you know, faucet or anything in the house. There were springs runnin' down. And then the creek run down right around the houses and...

MS: Nobody had water in the home.

JS: Down there. They had the springs only.

MS: We used to go out to the hydrant.

JS: And we had here, there used to be hydrants, oh one up above there, and then there were one right across from Helen's, across the road there, there were a hydrant there, and then there were one down below and so on you know through the town,

MS: And you (wound up) carryin' the water.

JS: And them people, that's how they lived down there. They used to just have the spring waters runnin' right--of course, they didn't have far to go, just, we'd say their home was here, and the water was runnin' out where the street is, like them ditches down that way, comin' out of the ground and runnin' right down, nice cold water, too. So all them springs down there--first spring, second spring, third spring, fourth spring, fifth spring, all the way down, and that's what they used to --of course, it was nice down there. Then there was another creek back further, like in a hollow a little more and there used to be nice trout fishin' there. There were nice fish. Well, they lived down in through that, all the way down, along out at the old Southern? railroad. That's where the trains used to come up from New York. All the Greenhorns used to come in. They used to get off right up here at Number Ten, what they used to call, right up above. And there was a station there, and they used to get off there, and they'd come in from Europe. And if they didn't have where to go to, no party to go to, there was a big boarding house up where that breaker is. Not this breaker here, but the one that for [call?] was [through?]

AV: The Buckley Coal Company breaker?

JS: They had a big breaker there. That's tore down, the old one, though. And they used to all get their coal from here. Number Seven, they call that Number Seven, because there were seven hoistin' engines down there. And seven slopes. A lot of men used to work down in through there. They used to come from the farms, some of the farmers used to come over the hill, and work and all the way down, out at the rail, there were homes, right out at the rail. Well, you could see them, right off the rail, you could see them. It was like a street, you know, goin' down. There was homes below, and there were homes above the railroad, and they used to call it Binsy-Bunsys, right over where the hay tree used to start. They had a picnic ground up on this end there. They had their own picnics there and all, Because you couldn't, our people wouldn't go, because, they'd right away fight, you know. They'd start to lick them, then Mcklies, because they were too strong then.

A. Varesano i.terviewing Joe Sulkusky and Mrs. Sulkusky

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Tape 30-2

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So, all the way down to, let's see, where the plane goes up to Number Eleven side, there were homes on the upper side of the railroad, too, and down below the railroad. And down all the way, then, from there on, a little piece-way, they used to call the Golden Buckets. That there place, they used to say they used to see the Golden Buckets on the stones. There were big stones and big rocks there, and , oh, you could have a dancin' floor on some of the rocks there, they were flat, you know, big ones, and sit up pretty high. Then the third spring, well that spring, since ever I remember it, that never went dry. Never. No matter how dry it is, it never goes dry. And that water is that cold, you'd swear to God you have ice cubes in it. That's how cold it is. And in the wintertime, you can go down and drink it like nobody's business, it's nice and not too cool, not too warm. Just nice to drink. Yeah, that's nice, nice, down that way. Well, this [Haus?] they showed him? that spring down there, and he said he won't sell that place down there for anything. He says that spring is worth big money. If you take...

MS: How come he's not here no more? He sold out, he's not here no more. way,

JS: Well, he sold out now, but when there were parties after to buy up along that they bought land down in through there. I don't know what bunch, they bought all the way up from Campbells, what they used to call it, up.

AV: Tell me about the Golden Bucket.

JS: Well, they used to claim that they used to see golden bucket on the stones.

AV: When did they see them?

JS: Some kind of, I don't know, whatever they used to always see golden buckets; we used to go pickin' berries down there. Down in the Golden Bucket! We'd be lookin' for them golden buckets, but we couldn't see them!

AV: Were they supposed to appear on top of the stones?

JS: Yeah, on top of the stones, set like this, somebody would set them there. That's the way they had them. Then the third spring, the spring is down right by the railroad, bubblin' right up. Well, the track is here, and the spring is right over there. That water just bubbles up out of the ground sterdy. Well up from there, that's where the Paramount took a picture up there. They were down. You know when that helicopter used to be goin' out?

MS: They took the pictures from the [illegible]

JS: Yes, but they were playin' on them stones. You think I'm tellin' you a lie?

MS: I don't know anything about it.

JS: I'll get Georgie, this here, Gera, he went down; and they were shootin' the pictures, and they were makin' love scenes. And he used to, he hid behind the stones, watchin' them! And then there Samantha spied 'im. He said Boy, could she swear! She's swear me every Goddarn thing, he said! He wasn't down there. You ask him, you think I'm tellin' you a lie. That's where they were takin' the pictures. There on that Malitchka Hooka that they used to call, too. That means Small Hill, you know. It's just like a round hill, there are berries on there all the time, hucklebberries.

AV: Whereabouts is that located?

JS: That's out this direction. So, that's where they were shootin' that picture. And that's when that helicopter used to be goin' over, you know, across. That's where they were takin' them, over there on them stones, you know. And they were settin' up in through around there. Yeah! so then, all the way down from there, there was the third spring, then there was the fourth spring, and down the way, down at Campbells, the fifth spring. They used to call Crazy Rachels. There were some farmers down here,and they, I don't know, they claim they weren't civilized or something, them people. They were like half wild. They called them Crazy Rachel! They were farm, you know small farms.

A. Varesano interviewing Joe Sulkusky and Mrs. Sulkusky

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Tape 30-2

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over, and I started to untie, but Jack Marshlik here, and his brother and my brother, they got ahold of me, and they said, Come on, we're goin' home, he says, you're not goin' to go back there lookin' for them snakes. he says. Come on! So I hadda go with them, they wouldn't let me take them off, and they were pullin' me, and draggin'. Come on, they said, we're goin'! That's a piece to walk home with them buckets, yet!

AV: I'll bet it is!

JS: So, we come home. They said, we'll come down tomorrow, he said. But when we were comin' home, the whistle blew One--Work. And we went to work the next day. Well, that's all we did work, that one day! The next say was idle so we went down again. And we come down there--our Joe come down with me that day. And we went down there and were pickin', pickin'. I filled the two buckets up. and I says to our Joe, I said. now yo'll pick here by this pine tree. And we put our buckets down there. And I says. There's lunch in the can. and there's fruit there. I says, so eat somethin', and we take water, every time we're goin' up, we take water up with us. So I goes with the can, you know, up lookin' for these stones, you know. And I found....

MS: And here's my granddaughter. She brought the pictures the other day after you was here.

JS: ...I come up on the gosh dang big stone, and lookin' around and scrapin' my feet over it, and lookin' around...

AV: Yeah?

JS: ...and I can't see nothin', there ain't nothin' there. And there are berries all over, just, mmm. So I start monkeyin' around the stone there, I says, Ah, the hell. I says, there's no damn snakes here. I sit on the stone, I have a jump down a little bit off this side. And the...

MS: ...I guess you're not in--and this was at the wedding, that was taken...she was married now, it was a year. Gonna be a year now in November.

JS: ...middle of the stone, there was a big crack in it. And about that wide open, you know. And it was long, about from here to that there door, about that long, that stone.

AV: Wow!

JS: And this way, pretty long. So, when I started to get off the stone, to get down again. the started buggin', a rattler. I'm lookin' around--where the hell are you? And I'm lookin' around, lookin' around. Then I spied 'im. There was another piece of stone come out, like that, and he was in there, that there, curled up.

MS: Here, you have more...

JS: And you keep...

MS: some more jelly...

JS: ...you keep the hell away from him...

MS: .Would you like the the green or the...

JS: ...when he's curled up. Because as long as he is, that's how far he can reach you. And he'll strike you, bite you. So, when I spied him there, I got a stick, and I looka, how the hell am i gonna get you out of there? You're ready to strike, and I only had a stick about this long, that's the kind I only take, you know, because a big long one, that's no good, but a small one, but you can handle it! I was foolin' around there, foolin' around. I gave him a poke, and he started to go out; when he started to go out, I said that's it, Get out of there! And I gave him one back of the neck, and I kicks him over to cut his rattles off. Well, I was like this, and the crack was below, and when I bent down I could see down through this crack. And I took the rattles in my hand, and was gonna cut them off with a knife, and I hear this buzzin'- like again, you know. I look at the rattle--Youse ain't

A. Varesano interviewing Joe Sulkusky (and Mrs. S)

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Tape 30-2

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But, don't let another dog come and interfere, or look out! Go sleigh and me in the ditch, and away he goes after the dog! So, I used to get them tumbles, and Jack Marshlik, he's a pretty big boy already, too, and we used to go out ridin'. Jack would come to me. Come on! He says, let's go, come on, he says, and we'll go for a ride. Well, I didn't want to take him, because he would cry when he'd get upset, you know. Then I would get a lickin' and he would get a lickin'! So, alright. But in an hour or so after, Jack would come over again: Let's go for a ride! Come on! Let's go for a ride! So, we would go, you know, and he would see a dog, and the dog it would growl, you know. Oh, well, then, that was it. He would swing you around, and that sled would just go Zoooooom! Off you go! I used to have Jack in a big box on th sleigh! Ha! We'd go tumbling all over. Jack would start cryin', well, I wouldn't cry, because I knew better. But Jack would start cryin', and we'd come home, then he would get it, and my mother would give it to me, for takin' Jack out! Oh, hell, that was fun! A lot of fun. He was a good dog, he was a dandy. But! If you tell him, You watch the house---and we're goin' for berries, all of us---don't close the door, leave it open. That dog stood there and there was nobody would touch anything in that house. He'd let you in, but you are not goin' out, til we come home, you would sit there! How many times we used to come home, when we were livin' in that house over below here, and these peddlers used to come around one time, sellin' cry goods and different things like that, and they used to have these big suitcases on their backs, you know, one on the back, one on the front, from door to door. And the poor beggar, he'd come in there, and we were for berries, and he had to sit there. He had to sit there til we come home! When we come home, and he started, Missus, I no take nothin', he says. He said. He leave me in, but he don't leave me out! He says, I couldn't go out, I had to sit here, he says, til you's come. He says, I'm here from the morning, he says! And it was already a little afternoon when we got home. He had to stay there, boy! He'd watch, he was very good. And Don't touch my mother! If you touched her, you know, took her and shook her, or somethin' like that, down you was, on the ground!

AV: Oh, boy!

JS: But he wouldn't bite you. He'd throw you down and he'd hold you there. That's now. And nobody learned him. I don't know how the hell he got on to that. He got on to it, and nobody could touch her, and that's that.

AV: Well, who was your favorite dog after that? Did you have a hunting dog that you liked?

JS: No. I used to always talk to them a lot. You talk to a dog, and he get to know what you are talkin Yes sir. The dog understands. Look at Whitey. I went up here, up on that ridge up there, for berried. And the dumb son of a gun, he's start to dig for a ground hog, in the stones, big stones. And I hollered at him, I said, what the hell, you dummy, I said, how the hell can you dig in them stones? So I'm hollerin' at him, but he got in so darn far that I couldn't see him. I said, To hell with you, you wear your paws off, then you're gonna come out of there. And I start pickin' berries again. I kept on. Well, he got tired, about in a hour or so, he got tired, and he come out from---they were two big stones like that, and pretty round they were, like that, they were just about that wide--and in between 'em, you'd think somebody dumped the berries in there, there aren't much in there. So I was kneelin' down and pickin' and I got filled up, and he come over, and he starts to trot into the berries. I says, Get the hell outta there, I says, you're gonna bust them up! I said, get the hell up on the stone there and get outta the road. He went over and he went on the

A. Varesano interviewing Joe Sulkusky (and hrs. S.)

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Tape 30-2

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stone and lay down there. I said, Stay there! I started to pick, you know, and I filled up, I tied up, and it didn't come in my mind that he is one the stone, you know. And I ordered him to go there. I come home, when I come here at the end of the fence, I look around--to hell, geez, no Whitey. I says, I'll bet you I told him to stay there and that's where he is, up on that stone. So I come home and I have dinner, and I am lookin' at the paper a little bit, and I says to her, I says, I better go up, because who know how long he is gonna stay on that stone! So I says, I give him hell, and I tell him to stay, and that's where he is! Well, i went up there, and I looked at him, and I says, You dumb Indian, you! I says, didn't you see me goin' home, I says? If I wouldn't have come up for you, how long would you stay here? So--he was another good dog. But there was nobody in the woods that would come to me. Nobody. He's let you come from here about out to that other door, and that's all the further you'd come, , without'n he met ya. He'd put his paws on your chest there, and show his teeth, and give it a growl at you, and you'd stand there. But he wouldn't bite nobody. He never bit anybody. So---guys that know him, you know! You'd think that he woud let them come to you, because they know him, they call by the name, and what sa matter with ya, and this and that, talkin' to him. Huh-uh. You're not comin' where I am. I used to laugh yet, when I would be pickin' berries, I said, listen. I said, this is my kooch! I says, you're not supposed to come and pick berries, here, I says. That's why he hold you back, I says.

I'd go and I'd holler out at 'im, and he'd get down. That's a bother! I says. But anybody comin' within here down to Geras or further, he would warn me somebody is comin'. He'd give me a couple barks. He'd scent that. Man, or whoever it was, it they'd like go for mushrooms, anybody comin' my direction, he was that far, he would give me a couple barks. He'd scent that. Man, or whoever it was, it they'd like go for mushrooms, anybody comin' my direction, he was that far, he would give me a couple of barks and he would keep on lookin' that direction. And the guy that would come close there, I don't know--Harry Putrushka, he used to meet me lots of times--he says, Joe, you got the best goddam policeman, he says, there ever was. What the hell, he says, he won't leave me go by you. They couldn't come to talk to me, and to come close. He'd keep them away, that's all. Never bite them.

AV: Did he ever attack wild animals?

KS: You know what Angie is sayin'? Did he attack wild animals any time?

JS: Oh! Groundhogs! Now, I never learned him how to hunt a groundhog. And you didn't need no gun. Just fo on out. And pretty soon you'd hear him barkin' already. And groundhogs fights like a hell. Oh, they're terrible. They're fast. A groundhog, if he's out, and the dog gets--if he's a smart dog, he can get him. But it he's a dumb one, he'll get such a lickin' from the groundhog! Look out! And especially, a groundhog will look for a place where he can hide his back, that you can't get him from the back. Up again a stone, or a tree, or something'. That's where a groundhog will hide himself when he's trapped already. And then, let the dog come front. They'd never touch him. That's how fast the groundhog is. And they bite, oh gee, they bite. And he could kill a groundhog in five minutes, he had a groundhog for you. I could go for a walk, like Sundays, I'd go up to that railroad up there, and up above there used to be chestnuts in there. I used to pick some chestnuts. Pretty soon I'd hear him barkin'. Oh, you dirty devil, you! Where the hell did you get that one goin'? Sure, and I'd come over close, I'd see him, and he'd see me, and he'd dive in and he'd grab that groundhog, give him a couple snakes, and there he is! And I never learned him. And to chase rabbits, he would chase them like anything. But he wouldn't bark. Only good thing, he was white--that's why I give him the name, Whitey.--ha